Should I invest in 2019?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:49 pm

At age 62, what are the pros and cons?

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:18 pm

Stefan already bought ten cases

Doc Glasser will say he’s out, and then buy ten cases

I will say no and stick to my guns

Nic will grab Beaujolais

MarcG will corner the market in 2019 VCC

BobbyG hasn’t even bought a thing past 2014

Izak says all 100 points!

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:29 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:49 pm At age 62, what are the pros and cons?

At these prices vs the supposed quality, I see very little con's for you. Seems like you have no problem enjoying bdx with 3-10 years of age, so you'll get to check in.

Best case scenario, you live longer than you think and enjoy beautiful 2019's in 15-20 years. These days, we wonder how well some of these more modern wines will age. But they should drink well younger.

They are the most likely vintage to appreciate in value, so you could always sell or trade them in 5-10 years for other wines that interest you more in the short term.

This is the first vintage that I have ever bought futures for, and am going to continue filling where I can. Barely touching 2017/2018/2020 until later on when I see how they develop.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:43 pm

Indeed! The pricing just seems so enticing.
I have a case of Tour Saint Christophe and a half case of La Conseillante already on futures, and was thinking of adding a case each of Calon, Lynch, and Barton for starters.
I haven't heard much about the style of the vintage, I think someone here said the alcohol was higher.
If anyone can find Izak's notes on the vintage please let me know!

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:21 pm

You like to drink them young, buy!
I like them with age, I'll probably buy some here and there.

Here are Izak's notes:
https://www.greatbordeauxwines.com/vintages/2019

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:34 pm

Thank you birthday boy, what are you drinking for your birthday?

I’m liking most vintages in that 8-15 year range, which should be in my early 70s.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:56 pm

Yes. I am not buying right now because I have no place in Oregon to store wines to be drunk in 10-20 years, but I intend to buy once we have a house.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:09 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:18 pm Stefan already bought ten cases

Doc Glasser will say he’s out, and then buy ten cases

I will say no and stick to my guns

Nic will grab Beaujolais

MarcG will corner the market in 2019 VCC

BobbyG hasn’t even bought a thing past 2014

Izak says all 100 points!

All the kool kids…

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:20 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:43 pm I think someone here said the alcohol was higher.

From my understanding the 2018 vintage was peak alcohol on the left bank and they managed to dial it back quite a bit for 2019.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:23 pm

JoelD wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:29 pm ...
This is the first vintage that I have ever bought futures for,
...

Me too. As soon as I saw the tariifs melt away I got in on the tail end of the ep campaign. Now I'm waiting on 33 bottles of 2019s.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:35 pm

2019 are/were so cheap. I wasn’t going to buy, but then Ian shared some notes and I got the 6 of the d’Issan ($46) and 4 of the Brane Cantenac ($51).

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:17 am

Jim, when you write "invest", i guess you mean invest to drink... answer is yes.

And for me... like Orlando Bobby said:

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:21 am

Gamay! Better than Bordeaux in it's 5 first years.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:22 am

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:34 pm Thank you birthday boy, what are you drinking for your birthday?

Thanks Jim
Actually nothing special, we went to a restaurant on Longboat Key but red tide is pretty bad. I didn't feel like opening the bottle we brought so we purchased a Jermann Pinot Grigio off the list. Lettie Teague was praising it in today's wsj and it was not bad (for what it was,)

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:45 am

Jim,

It's quite easy to find my TNs/ratings on different vintages

I've purchased some 2020s anyway and couldn't resist buying the same amount of bottles as 2018 and 2019. 16 bottles of each vintage.

After tasting around 1.500 bottles since last July (2018, 2019 and 2020 vintages), I now enjoy a break from tasting wines. I'll start again in few weeks to catch up with some minor verticals that I've been waiting for their turn.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:52 pm

I see a big difference in terms of quantity when it comes to investing in a particular vintage versus having a little exposure to it. 2019 seems to be shaping up as a very good vintage from what I have gathered and one that was priced attractively so I think that this definitely pushes the dial into the buy side territory.

With that said, the other choice is obviously choosing to backfill on wines you like. And the back to back to back vintages of 14, 15 and 16 does offer a wonderful trio of vintages with different vintage characteristics so if you can find some that haven’t started on their eventual slow upwards price march, then I think those deserve equal consideration.

Personally to this point, I have yet to purchase a Bdx wine from a newer vintage than 2016 but am still actively buying Bdx; just filling in wholes and doubling and tripling up on bottlings that I’ve really liked.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:23 pm

I process thousands of bits of information daily, GBF, I don’t always know where to immediately look for things in my information-overloaded brain. I see that you think 2019 is outstanding, where does it fall in the now epic 2014-2020 hierarchy? Do you have any concerns about wines like Margaux at 14.9%? Has Margaux ever been higher than the 14.9% of 2019?

Indeed, JC, I’m guessing 2014-2016 makes up more than half my cellar, I gotta check the percentage. I’m back filling a little here and there (2014 Palmer, 2016 Lynch, etc), but I figure with the 2019 prices plus good quality, that may be a vintage to take a look at.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:48 pm

Blanquito wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:09 pm
OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:18 pm Stefan already bought ten cases

Doc Glasser will say he’s out, and then buy ten cases

I will say no and stick to my guns

Nic will grab Beaujolais

MarcG will corner the market in 2019 VCC

BobbyG hasn’t even bought a thing past 2014

Izak says all 100 points!
All the kool kids…

I expected you to say, “no Jimbo, you be dead when these are ready,” but concluded that would be crass.

And we know Jimbo likes babies!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:26 pm

2014/15/16 comprises 64% of my cellar.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:52 pm

Nicklasss wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:21 am Gamay! Better than Bordeaux in it's 5 first years.

Thivin so great. And pairs with so many dinner courses, even grilled salmon.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:13 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:52 pm Thivin so great. And pairs with so many dinner courses, even grilled salmon.

Fully agree, bought a case of splits (24) in addition to 750’s in 2019 and boy are they hard to keep your hands off of!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:20 pm

What is the difference between the bottling that Nicola shows in this picture and the Cuvee Zacharrie that Zachys has for $19, and which JS rates 96 points?

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:29 pm

Hehe thanks for the heads up on that as there is clearly something wrong with that price for the Cuvee Zaccharie which comes from their oldest vines as that is less than the wholesale price for the regular Cote de Brouilly

And you can browse the Kermit Lynch technical info here;

https://www.kermitlynch.com/our-wines/chateau-thivin/

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:55 pm

So I just ordered a case, do you think they will honor that price?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:55 pm

Thivin is a top 5 world’s greatest red wine QPR, IMHO.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:00 pm

I was only going to order 6 but the shipping was $50, so I ordered 12, where the shipping only goes up to $54.
It'll be interesting if I get those wines that I ordered at that price.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:00 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:55 pm So I just ordered a case, do you think they will honor that price?

Holy moly, the Zaccharie is usually at least $40! I just ordered a case too, let’s see what happens!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:07 pm

Geez, the basic bottle is "on sale" in NH for $26.99, this is clearly an error.
But my receipt from Zachy's references Zacharrie, so we shall see what they are made of!

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:13 pm

jckba wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:13 pm
OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:52 pm Thivin so great. And pairs with so many dinner courses, even grilled salmon.
Fully agree, bought a case of splits (24) in addition to 750’s in 2019 and boy are they hard to keep your hands off of!

Awesome, where are you getting the splits? That’s my dream format for Beaujolais.

The Zach’s pricing on the Zaccharie cannot be right.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:15 pm

The last year I've had more than a half dozen 'mistake pricing' on wines, both in store and online. I think the labor shortage in warehouses/stockrooms is causing these issues when a shipment is inventoried and uploaded into systems by a labor force unfamiliar with all the nuances of vineyards/vintages etc.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:30 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:13 pm Awesome, where are you getting the splits? That’s my dream format for Beaujolais.

Winebow distributes Thivin here in the metro NYC area and the pricing on 2019 splits were $12.50/btl through the end of March but went up to $15.50/btl April 1st … still showing as available but not quite the deal it once was especially if you have to add in a percentage retail markup + shipping + taxes.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:24 pm

I have 162 bottles of 2019 Bdx according to CT but a lot of them, I dare say the majority, are in half bottle formats.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:24 pm

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:09 pm

Jim,

I don't really care about high alcohol in wine unless it's sufficient fruit and tannin to contain it.

Don't worry about Ch. Margaux 2019. You won't taste the alcohol. You will taste liquid silk and be taken by the fragrance and subtlety. It will last for at least 50 years but probably will deliver goods already at age 15-20.

You guys should go on hunt in Castillon Cotes de Bordeaux and Puisseguin Saint Emilion. Both districts were a revelation for me in 2018 and 2020. Great value and more for the money.

I didn't receive as many samples from those two districts in 2019 vintage for tasting.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:46 pm

Was just looking at the Zachy's 2020 futures pricing.
Seems kind of expensive, no?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:16 am

Jim buying some (hum, how did he called it in the past?)... was it fucking Beaujolais? Or something slightly different?

The World is doomed.

I agree with OB and blanquito, Thivin is very special and great.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:48 am

Can't wait to see how great this $20 wine is, Nicola!
Zachy's has charged my credit card, so they must be on the way....

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:28 pm

I see Zachy’s just changed the price on the Zaccharie to a more Zachy’s-like $50: https://www.zachys.com/cote-de-brouilly ... 750ml.html

Methinks we ain’t getting our cases Jim, lest ways not at $20/per.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:33 pm

Blanquito wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:28 pm I see Zachy’s just changed the price on the Zaccharie to a more Zachy’s-like $50: https://www.zachys.com/cote-de-brouilly ... 750ml.html

Methinks we ain’t getting our cases Jim, lest ways not at $20/per.

shhhhhh, stop talking about it on the interwebs. I want my 4 bottles that I ordered too!

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:49 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:55 pm So I just ordered a case, do you think they will honor that price?

I have bought several what I felt were mispriced wines before from Zachys and they ended up delivering the right wine at a stupid good price. Fingers crossed.