Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

If you could only choose one, would you buy:

One bottle of the "ultimate JimHow vintage" 2014 Chateau Margaux on sale at $339.99.
One bottle of "Musigny-151's greatest young release ever" 2016 Chateau Mouton Rothschild on sale at $610.72.
One case of the humble and benevolent 97 point 2019 Chateau Tour Saint Christophe, en futuro at Zachy's for $29.99 per bottle (total $359.88).

Mouton.

My logic:
Margaux excellent wine from a very good year. You have tons of this type of wine in your cellar.
19 Tour St. Do you really need another case of quaffers?
Mouton. Great wine from a transcendent year. Even Neal gave it 100 pts.

Bill

Oh man. Those are wise words, William P.
You are a true BWE devil.

I vote for option one because...

Option 3...A couple of bottles of TSC can be purchased for modest price and can still experience it...

Option 2...Do you think it will top the 86 Mouton you rave about and for which you scored the 86 a 100 pointer?

Option 1... It’s an ultimate JimHow kinda vintage, which can’t go wrong for you, and also you can get almost 2 bottles of those for a 16 Mouton..,


So, I voted for option 1, and if you have more itch, get a pair...

Very sound analysis, indeed, CV, especially the "get a pair" part.
Two Margauxs or one Mouton?

JimHow wrote:Very sound analysis, indeed, CV, especially the "get a pair" part.
Two Margauxs or one Mouton?

Two Margauxs it is...

The thing that grabs me about the 2016 Mouton is the comparison to 1986, which has a finish the length of Delaware.
Can you elaborate on this, Musigny-151?

(Whichever decision I make, I will post a photo, to confirm my decision.)

Your hypothetical said one bottle of Margaux not two.

Next, why can't 16 surpass the 86 which was good but hardly transcendent year. So if you buy the Margaux, you have two bottles on very good wine, which only adds to your cellar of overflowing "very good wines."

Obviously, this is all JFL, the decision rests with you.

Bill

JimHow wrote:The thing that grabs me about the 2016 Mouton is the comparison to 1986, which has a finish the length of Delaware.
Can you elaborate on this, Musigny-151?

That's what my question was....If 16 Mouton can go the distance of 86 Mouton and more, then it's a rock and hard place. Would 16 Mouton go the distance? You mentioned couple of wines brought tears to your eyes. IIRC, one is 99 Amarone Valpolicella(?) and the other 86 Mouton?...

Ha indeed, Bill, 1986 Mouton is one of my Top 3 favorite wines. A finish the length of even the smallest of states is a loooong finish.
I'll never forget the 1986 Mouton that Mr. vino brought to a convention in California -- where was that, Mr. V, in Sonoma, or SF? -- and, I'm not exaggerating, the damned finish literally numbed my mouth, like novocaine, or those mixed nuts I'm not supposed to eat because I'm allergic to pistachios. So then Stuart brings another 1986 Mouton to a subsequent convention -- DC? -- and goddamn if like my tongue and lips start swelling out like Mick's while he's dancing at Studio 54 circa summer of '78....

Now, Musigny-151 AND greatbordeauxfreak are BOTH telling me that this is the wine to have.
And the New Hampshire liquor store has like cases and cases of it, and come the October French/spanish/italian wine sale, it is going to go from $700+ to $610....

Hmmmmm.

Indeed, CV, 1988 Dal Forno Romano Amarone #1 greatest wine experience, 1989 Lynch #2, and I can easily pick '86 Mouton in the top 3, CERTAINLY the top 10, and I've been very lucky to drink some pretty epic stuff in my years with BWE...

I need to find out, I'm too tired to ask, jckba, does that $29.99 Zachy's price for Tour St. Cristophe include tariffs, etc.?

I would stick with the 2014 Chateau Margaux, because like you wrote it is a JimHow kind of vintage, the price is good and the Margaux aoc should be enjoyable sooner than a Pauillac.

The 2019 Tour Saint Christophe is surely an excellent wine, but i guess it will be available in the USA for a long time at that price.

For the 2016 Chateau Mouton Rothschild, it is a really high price for a Deuxième Cru Classé. What? Don't tell me you believe that sh** about Mouton being moved from Deuxième to Premier in 1973, after the jury tasted the 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971 and 1972? It was a machination organized very well, with nice labels since 1945, lots of lobbying, and probably lots of "pot-de-vin", a bit the same strategy that has been used by Chateau Angélus.

My vote is for the 2014 Chateau Margaux, the classic of classic, true to the best of tradition red Bordeaux can be.

Nic

Oh man, another compelling post, and a little history as well.
Didn't a certain French president have something to do with it?

I mean, I hear you, Nicola, but when BOTH Musigny-151 AND greatbordeauxfreak BOTH recommend the 1986-like 2016 Mouton....

Wow.

I wonder if I could make a profit if I bought a case of 2016 Mouton (plus one bottle to keep for myself for my 80th birthday) at $610 per bottle.

The Mouton would be tax free, etc.

I hear you Jim. But wake up my friend : when Musigny 151 AND greatbordeauxfreak are recommending THE SAME FUC**** WINE, you know THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG! The machination is complete, timeless.

Nic

OB weighs in with Nic, with a twist. Do the Marguax. Classic vintage and a well-priced First Growth. Damn do I love Mouton but I’m not paying $600-$700 for a wine that needs 20 years and you can backfill some quality vintages of Mouton for less. Makes no sense to me unless you have very serious money to burn. Total pass on the ubiquitous Rolland wine even if you get a case.

Now for the twist: get two of the Margaux. You are clearly willing to buy the Mouton, so double-down and get two of the Margaux so you can enjoy it twice during its evolution.

Margaux, without a doubt
1. You're BWE, since when do you listen to what critics say? Buy what you think you'll like.
2. Margaux represents great value at $339. Mouton is just a great wine priced fairly. Buy it if you want but not based on value.
3. Margaux is after Lafite my favorite 1st Growth but I don't think you have that many of it, and I think you own more Mouton. Diversify!
4. You love 2014, buy what you know you love.

Hope that helps.

p.s buy a case of the 2019 TsC, you'll finish it all by 2025 anyway.

Mouton Rothschild 2016!

Instead of 2019 Tour St. Christophe (I rated it 94p) I would suggest La Lagune 2019. Maybe a few bottles of 2019 from Petit Village and Bourgneuf too.

When Izak and I agree on a wine, it has to be a slam dunk.

Let me make this a more interesting question; I will sell you a single bottle of VCC 2014 at my cost, $150. So for less than $100 more than the cost of two bottles of the Margaux, you will own a better wine than the Margaux, and a truly sublime wine.

I will try and expand a little more on my Mouton notes. I know a wine is a perfect wine, because when I taste it, time seems to stand still. The Mouton as that compelling. First the balance, everything held together in perfect unison. The nose is complex, led by a great core of cassis, anchored by the warm scents of spice, cedar and then an extra layer of violets. On the palate, there is great structure and elongation. The wine has a finish that should be timed with a calendar rather than a stopwatch (not my description, but it is not too much of an exaggeration). The only downside is that it will need fifteen to twenty more years.

Flawed poll. No option for "all of the above."

Obviously a personal decision. I'd go with the Marguaux but buy 2 bottles, since I'm considering spending about that amount on the Mouton. Less reservations opening a $300 bottle than a $600 bottle, and two opportunities to open a really special bottle.

The Tour St Christophe will presumably be available in the future, though likely for more money. I don't have the relationship with Mr. Kwok that you do so it lacks that dimension of specialness.

I bet my friend would sell you a bottle of '86 Mouton for $700

Musigny 151 wrote:When Izak and I agree on a wine, it has to be a slam dunk.

Let me make this a more interesting question; I will sell you a single bottle of VCC 2014 at my cost, $150. So for less than $100 more than the cost of two bottles of the Margaux, you will own a better wine than the Margaux, and a truly sublime wine.

I will try and expand a little more on my Mouton notes. I know a wine is a perfect wine, because when I taste it, time seems to stand still. The Mouton as that compelling. First the balance, everything held together in perfect unison. The nose is complex, led by a great core of cassis, anchored by the warm scents of spice, cedar and then an extra layer of violets. On the palate, there is great structure and elongation. The wine has a finish that should be timed with a calendar rather than a stopwatch (not my description, but it is not too much of an exaggeration). The only downside is that it will need fifteen to twenty more years.

I vote this deal for you Jim, Sounds better than 2x Margaux. I am on the hunt for both 2014 VCC and 2016 Mouton at the right prices/places.

Alternatively, if you are able to sell wine at anywhere near low WS price. You could buy a case of the Margaux, turn over 9-10 bottles and keep the rest for free. That is my other vote, or both.

Personally I would wait on the TSC, and see about tariffs and at least try a bottle first.

Jim,

Ditto the comments on doubling down with the 14 Margaux. Classic year and great price. You'll pick up a case of the TSC regardless and personally at our age why buy a long shot like the 16 Mouton at a premium. I'm sure that it will be great 20 years from now but even with your father living to 90 I wouldn't bank on the concept that many of us will be around to enjoy that wine with you. Rarely do I open these treasures without like minded wine lovers like BWE'ers or our local gang to share the joy. I'd be passing on the 16 Mouton even if I was in your neck of the woods but the Margaux and TSC are slam dunks!

Racer Chris wrote:I bet my friend would sell you a bottle of '86 Mouton for $700

Exactly. Making the 2016 a silly purchase at most of our ages! When I wrote what I wrote above, I was thinking exactly about the tremendous 1986.

And imagine when you are 90 and open your 16 Mouton, only to find it corked...

But the chance of having both Margaux corked is only half...